Seemed to me that all went pretty much as expected last night. 

Economy: waters very muddied by the recent financial mess, but in general McCain emphasized his role as an anti-pork-barrel maverick, while Obama emphasized gov’t program priorities and concern for reducing taxes on middle class. Since I am a fiscal conservative who spent much of the last decade pouring blood, sweat, and tears into helping my husband found and grow a small business, I was glad that McCain made no apologies for wanting to encourage business to stay here in this country. "Corporate America" is not the enemy, and most of what is referred to as "corporate America" is really the army of small-to-medium-sized business owners struggling to stay afloat and to do well by their employees.

Health care: the distinction was also made clear. Another area where most of us recognize that the system is broken. I am wary of a nationalized system and ever-more-bloated government. McCain wants the privatized system intact with tax money given back to families to help pay the outrageous premiums…Obama wants universal health care–I can understand why, but that notion of government being in charge of our access to health care always worries me–a lot.

The war: I’m not prepared to tackle that one, but both candidates said pretty much what I expected on that hot potato.

Time to eat breakfast–enough of my blather for now. I suspect that the VP debates will get at more of the social issues that polarize us. A whole ‘nother can of worms, best left for another day anyway….

Jane     September 28 at 12:48pm

No surprises… the actual things spoken were a snoozefest. What was far more interesting were the demeanor and facial expressions of each candidate. Long story short, I feel Obama was more "presidential", once he got his game on. McCain was quite snarky, with all the eye rolling. I love snarky, in a friend, don’t need it in my president…

Obama started out not so strong, since McCain came out (no surprise) swinging. Then Obama finally got it, and dished some back. But anything new? No. McCain thinks we need to cut spending, Obama things we need more regulation. McCain thinks we are winning the war (!!!!!) and Obama thinks we never should have been there in the first place. No great propositions for getting us the hell out of there…

arggh. wanna move to Canada?

Lizzie     September 28 at 2:08pm

I have to admit, when I heard McCain give a W-like snicker near the beginning of the debate, I winced. I agree with you that Obama was more presidential. One of the things I like and admire about Obama is that he is an Orator (with a capital "O")–one who respects the English language and the conventions of good oratory. In the debate and in his speeches, he exudes authority and intelligence.  I like that McCain has a long history of being pugnacious in his refusal to sign off on wasteful spending. (Insert standard conservative railings about inefficient government programs here.) That said, I think McCain’s answer to Jim Lehrer was inadequate. No president will be able to address the financial hole we’ve now fallen into by trimming pork! (I also think Obama’s answer was inadequate, by the way, on that one. He talked about how he would prioritiize his add-ons, not what he would cut. At least, that’s what I came away with…)

Regarding the war–my head starts spinning when I hear Republicans and Democrats argue with one another about the "facts" of our troops’ status in Iraq. The surge was necessary, the surge was a failure, we’re helping keep order, we’re making order impossible, blah blah blah. I am frustrated (like you and most everyone else I know) and want us the hell out of there too. How best to proceed? I’m not smart enough to know.

Jane     September 28 at 3:16pm

No one is smart enough to know, and few were smart enough to not support Bush before the mess all began…  (wow, I think I just channelled James Carville, LOL)

Jane     September 28 at 3:37pm

You just admitted, Lit Geek friend o’ mine, that BO is a lit geek too. Why does everyone in this country want a beer buddy for president? I want a smart president. I want a smart lawyer, and doctor, and investment banker (ok, that last one I threw in for shits and giggles, we now know that is an total and complete oxymoron, ha ha), why not a smart president?  Have we been lulled into stupidity over the last eight years?

I’ll keep my friends for sittin’ on the couch poundin’ back a few. In the White House, give me the guy with Columbia and Harvard under his belt. (his wife is a huge asset in my eyes too)

I felt many answers on both sides were inadequate as well. I just prefer to throw my vote to the guy who will not be more of the same super inadequate we’ve suffered through two W administrations.

Lizzie     September 28 at 4:20pm  

I’m always attracted to smart people who do not feel any need to try to act like anyone’s beer buddy. (It’s always nice when the prez knows how to pronounce the word "nuclear" also.) It galls me that intellectuals are so often deemed to be "elitist." Neither of my two votes for W was with an altogether clear conscience. I liked him a whole lot better on 2000, of course. And I gave him points for being open about his Christian faith. But I was worried from the outset about the fact that the guy just isn’t all that bright. (Enter Dick Cheney, mwah-ha-ha)

I like Obama’s intellectual panache. Mega-points for being a thinker, whose sentences render just as well in print as they do from a podium.

I would love to chat more about the spiritual wanderings we’ve both done.

Lizzie     September 28 at 4:36pm

Full disclosure: I’m hanging onto this faith thing by my fingernails at the moment. Love Jesus, abhor Paul–wonder if those two sentiments can really coexist in any sort of Christianity I’d want to count myself in on. Moreover, I feel jaded, wary of ministers/priests, and mad at myself for reasons I’m still sorting through.

I find Judaism enthralling–rich, beautiful, reverent, joyful, full of symbols I can see, touch, and taste. If I weren”t so very fond of Yeshua as my personal messiah, the local synagogue would be the next stop for me. (Though whether they would be happy about that I do not know!) I can understand why you would gravitate toward the ritual, liturgy, and observances of conservative Judaism. It is a beautiful faith.

One of the things I am glad about from my Evangelical sojourn is the literacy I gained in the Hebrew scriptures. I’ll never be too crazy about the part in the one-year Bible where I have to plow through Leviticus, but I get lost in Genesis, Exodus, Job, Isaiah, Nehemiah, Ruth, Esther.

Oh, and I do get what you said about the cultural part being more compelling for you than the pure-faith part. It’s hard sometimes for us Gentiles to wrap our minds around what it’s like to be part of a faith that is also a cultural behemoth on the world stage. (One more thing I envy…)

Jane     September 28 at 5:43pm

One schizophrenic conversation is way better than two.

(hee hee)  Politics and religion, religion and politics…

Okay so you want a president who knows how to pronounce nuclear. It’s a step in the right (er, correct) direction, my pinkish fading to lavender-ish friend…  As for W being open about his faith… well, yes he is a Christian, and he states so publicly. But didn’t you find his pretending to have found Conservative Christianity (and you know why I capitalized that!!) a bit disingenuous? His devoutness (as opposed to devotion?!?) was thrown out to the masses so he could win votes. I really believe that. And let’s not forget his famous "consulting a higher Father" when asked if he’d queried dear old Dad about invading Iraq…

 The things you find appealing about Judaism are very similar to my take on it, although I was raised and indoctrinated from an early age. (Judaism by osmosis?)

The inter-scholarship between theologies is fascinating to me, as long as it recognizes two separate faiths and doesn’t meld into a mushy messianic judaism or jews for jesus sort of mess. (and you know why I didn’t capitalize those!!)

As to how you would be received at your local synagogue, well it depends on the place. You would probably be more Biblically literate than many there. (say a big thank you to those Fundies, but be glad it’s from afar, ha ha)  Although your take on things, as per the source of your education, might need some Jewish or Rabbinical "tweaking"… Plus there’s that whole Jesus thing… Safe to say, if you walked the walk, and not just talked the talk, you’d be just fine. No one should be rude to an explorer. (but sadly some might be…)

So how do we wind this back to Election 2008? We take it totally off topic, to note that Obama wore a flag pin while McCain did not. Because really, we need to discuss what matters most!!

Financial breakdown. War. Social issues. Health Care. We haven’t even touched too much on my pet passion, the total disregard for the Constitution, destruction of our civil liberties, and complete mega-power grab by the current Executive Branch.

Lizzie     September 28 at 7:38pm

I’m not looking for some watered-down syncretistic, wishy-washy experience. I’m just fascinated and rather awed–and have been, I guess, since a serious relationship with a Jewish man from a Zionist family (father was a Holocaust survivor) when I was in college. My shiksa-hood was a deal-breaker, which I understand now a lot better than I did then.  The great thing about the one-year-Bible habit is that no one is telling you what spin to put on what you read. Law, history, poetry, prophets are all just there in front of you to drink in. (Though of course I read through a different lens than you would).

As for where I am now, I spent a year refusing to go to church with my husband George. (He opted for a "groovier" Baptist church where the bulletin had cheery little announcements about the upcoming "seasoned singles potluck" and where they sang endless choruses that reminded me of lovesick teenage pop anthems.) I went instead to a very traditional Episcopal church, where all of my own "osmosis" Catholicism was re-ignited. The liturgy of the Word and the Eucharist-ahh, all that good contemplative worship without the glowering Father Hanlon intoning on venial sin (and smelling of scotch when you greeted him in the vestibule).

Because George just didn’t get why anyone would want to stand-sit-kneel and listen to a guy in robes chanting, we finally opted for a compromise. Lo and behold, I am now a Presbyterian by default. Let me see…that makes Catholic, Methodist, Bible-Church, Assembly of God, Evangelical Free, Calvary Chapel, Southern Baptist, Anglican, & Presbytarian. Heaven help me! (Next week the Pres. church is having a U2-charist. Love U2, but can you imagine?!)

I’d like to give George W. the benefit of the doubt on his statements of faith. You may be right, but for all of my accrued cynicism I do believe he’s sincere.

Didn’t notice the flag pin. Interesting.

Tell me more about your thoughts on civil liberties. And I’m quite open to discussion on reproductive rights too. Conflicted, but open.

No Chuck E Cheese. Yuck. Do you think a middle-aged introvert with a history of anxiety issues would subject herself to such torture? I just don’t do Chuck E. (shudder)

So, in another few exchanges, I’m sure we will have solved all the world’s greatest problems and decided the outcome of the presidential election. Have at it, my friend.

Not purple, not pink, but more of a mood-ring…

Jane     September 28 at 8:19pm

I don’t have time tonight to do justice to your message, but just wanted to say one thing:

Wouldn’t it be great to sit and have coffee/tea/wine together?  I am enjoying this exchange so much. I miss using my brain cells.

More later, when bedtimes and husbands aren’t calling…

Your flaming blue, tree hugging green, bleeding heart (blood is red, right? drat!) liberal friend,

Lefty   :-p

Lizzie     September 28 at 9:50pm

I’ve loved this and wish you lived closer. I’m betting we could find a way to have a glass of wine (or two) together one of these days.  Raising a sulfite-ridden glass of pinot grigio to your organic beer.